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MsMittens
Mar 2 2005, 09:30 PM
Ok. Someone owes me a raise, dammit! If I'm supposed to be part of this high paid group, where's my take??!?!? Someone is asleep at the chequebook here!!! Hrmph.  Kidding aside, it does prove a point I had to make someone who claimed "Security is just a fad". I somehow doubt that it is and, in fact, it's going to grow. As companies become more and more aware of what they need to protect and that singular end-point/perimeter security isn't sufficiant. It's not just the gadgets that ensure security but EVERYTHING! QUOTE Source: Search Security @ Tech TargetCredentialed security specialists continue to enjoy higher wages than some of their IT brethren, according to the latest "Hot Technical Skills and Certifications Pay Index" released this week by IT research consultancy Foote Partners LLC, of New Canaan, Conn. The bonuses reflect a trend among employers to reward workers with specialized skills and to keep them from jumping ship. The overall median wage for 62 certified skills grew 4% overall in 2004, compared to a 5.6% decline the year prior. In fact, much of the wage advancements were made the final quarter of 2004. Specific bonus figures that account for the promising percentage were not immediately available, but the data indicates companies again are willing to compensate workers moving beyond basic skill sets. "There has been a renaissance in IT roles and a redefinition of IT jobs so pervasive that traditional job titles are becoming increasingly meaningless," David Foote, president and chief research officer, said in a statement. In general, pay for networking (11.6%), systems administration (9.2%) and programming and applications development (7.7%) skills grew the most in value, while beginning certifications (-21.1%), project management (-18.8%) and Web skills (-8.5%) dropped most dramatically.Security skills rose 1.1% between 2003 and 2004. However, while overall security skills pay remained steady, certain security certifications continued to yield the highest payoffs among IT skills sets, according to 46,000 U.S. and European IT workers included in the study. The highest paying security certs include: * Certified Information Systems Auditor (CISA); * Certified Information Systems Security Professional (CISSP); * Cisco Certified Security Professional (CCSP); * SANS/GIAC Security Expert (GSE) * GIAC Certified Forensic Analyst (GCFA) * GIAC Certified Windows Security Administrator (GCWN)
Security certified skills losing value in the last six months include the GIAC Incident Handler, which stagnated, and GIAC Security Essentials Certification, where skills pay dropped 20% from Q2 to Q4 2004. Certs that have lost significant value in the last two years include the GIAC Firewall Analyst, according to the report. So what's behind the reversal of fortune for IT professionals? Essentially a revived talent war, where companies will do more to hire or retain A-list employees. "More attention is being paid to the risks of losing workers who stuck it out through years of workforce reductions, and for good reason," Foote said. These workers, who often took on additional responsibilities during lean times, also have acquired business skills that make them more marketable. These "hybrid jobs" could eventually become the norm, where everyone is required to understand operational and process skills to work in IT. Also fueling the bigger bonuses are technology-driven regulations, such as HIPAA and the Sarbanes-Oxley Act. This is especially good news for consultants with data and network security skills. The mixed success of offshore outsourcing also is an influence. Though the trend to send IT work outside the U.S. is expected to continue at a slower pace, nearly "60% of offshoring initiatives have been failing to measure up to expectations, especially in cost savings," he said.
SgtRush
Mar 3 2005, 03:28 PM
Me too!!! Thats great, I imagine I will still have to wait til July for my raise.
myth
Mar 3 2005, 06:22 PM
CISSP, thats a nice cert. and looks pretty promising ... cheers
Hopefully i finally finish my course and get a job into IT security, or atleast a relative department, just before security starts to really get paid for .....
/me looks forward to the security sector's potential
beardednose
Mar 3 2005, 08:08 PM
I haven't found this to be true in my case. I already made good money long before I got this cert. But it isn't hurting. While I think this cert is valuable, you have to have the results behind them. I'm paid what I am because I've delivered, over and again. But now, people trust me more. I think that's ridiculous, but I understand why. So I guess the formula is results + cert. That's why I have both.
AgentOrange
Mar 4 2005, 06:21 AM
Wow, good artical. I read that according to the US Government's projections; Computer Security related jobs are suposed to increase by 84% over the next 10 years. The average job growth rate in the US for the next ten years is only 13% .
Peace
as0l0
Mar 4 2005, 07:12 AM
this is the best bit
"nearly "60% of offshoring initiatives have been failing to measure up to expectations, especially in cost savings," he said. "
beardednose
Mar 6 2005, 01:00 AM
QUOTE That's why I have both. I hope I didn't come across really arrogant in my post above. That wasn't my intention. What I meant was that I think that being able to do the job was more important than the cert---and if you can do the job, the cert comforts those suits want to say, "Our security people are CISSP" and those who want someone "officially" to blame if something goes wrong. And I still learned alot by all the reading and studying.
SgtRush
Mar 7 2005, 08:10 PM
I didn't think you were being arrogant. Just expressing your frustration with how our industry measures competency. I have a 6 figure salary based mostly on the 15 years I have been in IT. I also have a plethera of Certs. Some were vendor requirements, some were simply to prove to those who won't or can't take the time to size up your skill sets what you are capable of when making a hiring decision. My pet peave on this whole situation is that there are some sectors of our industry that insist on a college degree. As a veteran who never got to college that one gets my goat. Not downplaying the importance of College, on the contrary, my daughter is going to college wether she wants to or not. I don't want any doors to be closed to her for any reason.
On a slightly different note. My CISSP is up next year, I am going to have to teach a few classes and increase my seminar attendance to get my CPE's up. Has anyone already been through the renewal process? My question relates to how closely do they look at your CPE record.
s3ntinel
Mar 8 2005, 10:25 AM
QUOTE(SgtRush @ Mar 7 2005, 09:10 PM) I didn't think you were being arrogant. Just expressing your frustration with how our industry measures competency. I have a 6 figure salary based mostly on the 15 years I have been in IT. I also have a plethera of Certs. Some were vendor requirements, some were simply to prove to those who won't or can't take the time to size up your skill sets what you are capable of when making a hiring decision. My pet peave on this whole situation is that there are some sectors of our industry that insist on a college degree. As a veteran who never got to college that one gets my goat. Not downplaying the importance of College, on the contrary, my daughter is going to college wether she wants to or not. I don't want any doors to be closed to her for any reason. This thing with companies requiring a degree is spot on. How can good academic grades from overs 5 years + ago really have a bearing on a person's ability now? I'm doing the Masters in IT Security just now and there are currently 50 jobs in London requiring a CISSP and only one requing a Masters. Bearing in mind that the CISSP is one exam, and the Masters is continued study over a year, I feel that the tick box attitude to security certs is crazy. (I am not ridiculing the difficulty of the CISSP before the flames start reaching my door  ) Some of the best jobs are being restricted to the elite that have taken a degree and does not take account of actual ability to do the job. IMHO a degree is only really relevant if the person has recently completed study (ie Within 2-3 years). This is the path that IT Security is proceeding along though, companies are more concerned about doing what is required to pass the ISO/BS7799/SOX/HIPAA audits and not worrying about doing the job properly in the first place. The security industry is dynamic to say the least, the perimeter is moving to the desktop and people are still struggling to understand this. Just having a cert doesn't help, you have to want to be in the job, look at forums such as this and keep up with the game. There is talk about the creation of a professional body along the same lines as the medical profession within the UK and hopefully this will create a more structured way of defining ability, on one of the job adverts today I saw that a company was asking for "a security certification such as CISSP, CISA or CCSA"... How can a vendor certification such as the CCSA be rated as a security cert?!? The industry needs to wake up and smell the coffee!
beardednose
Mar 8 2005, 01:11 PM
For me, I look for a degree when I hire because it tells me that a person can stick with something longterm. Yah, I know you can go through college with Cs and D. But you can earn certs really fast; it's hard to rush a degree. Also, a degree makes you more well-rounded in my opinion.
Also, a degree is expensive. You have to figure out how to pay for it.
Although I've listed a degree in my latest job description, I would take the right person without it. But I guess I'm stuck on it, right or wrong.
I just think that a degree says more about a person than a cert.
s3ntinel
Mar 9 2005, 12:41 PM
QUOTE(beardednose @ Mar 8 2005, 02:11 PM) For me, I look for a degree when I hire because it tells me that a person can stick with something longterm. Hmm, I take the point you're making but this only gives an impression from a snapshot in time. A lot can happen over a 5-10 year period, people can become more apathetic or conversely more diligent in their application to work. I agree that understanding the need to research that an academic course gives is of great use, but I feel that the overall benefit of a degree is often time-sensitive. Vendor certs are too specialised and pretend to be something they're not (The CCSE harping on about how CCSE's should be able to conduct Pent/Vulnerability tests for example). Security within academia in the UK appears to still be haphazard, with MSc's not fully giving valid direction about the application of security within the enterprise and standardisation is required across the industry to this regard.
genxweb
Mar 28 2005, 08:00 PM
I cant wait i am a candidate for my cissp on 4/24/05 then I can too can improve my salary and job leads QUOTE(s3ntinel @ Mar 9 2005, 12:41 PM) QUOTE(beardednose @ Mar 8 2005, 02:11 PM) For me, I look for a degree when I hire because it tells me that a person can stick with something longterm. Hmm, I take the point you're making but this only gives an impression from a snapshot in time. A lot can happen over a 5-10 year period, people can become more apathetic or conversely more diligent in their application to work. I agree that understanding the need to research that an academic course gives is of great use, but I feel that the overall benefit of a degree is often time-sensitive. Vendor certs are too specialised and pretend to be something they're not (The CCSE harping on about how CCSE's should be able to conduct Pent/Vulnerability tests for example). Security within academia in the UK appears to still be haphazard, with MSc's not fully giving valid direction about the application of security within the enterprise and standardisation is required across the industry to this regard.
genxweb
Mar 28 2005, 08:03 PM
I cant wait i am a candidate for my cissp on 4/24/05 then I can too can improve my salary and job leads QUOTE(s3ntinel @ Mar 9 2005, 12:41 PM) QUOTE(beardednose @ Mar 8 2005, 02:11 PM) For me, I look for a degree when I hire because it tells me that a person can stick with something longterm. Hmm, I take the point you're making but this only gives an impression from a snapshot in time. A lot can happen over a 5-10 year period, people can become more apathetic or conversely more diligent in their application to work. I agree that understanding the need to research that an academic course gives is of great use, but I feel that the overall benefit of a degree is often time-sensitive. Vendor certs are too specialised and pretend to be something they're not (The CCSE harping on about how CCSE's should be able to conduct Pent/Vulnerability tests for example). Security within academia in the UK appears to still be haphazard, with MSc's not fully giving valid direction about the application of security within the enterprise and standardisation is required across the industry to this regard.
genxweb
May 9 2005, 11:13 AM
QUOTE(genxweb @ Mar 28 2005, 08:03 PM) I cant wait i am a candidate for my cissp on 4/24/05 then I can too can improve my salary and job leads QUOTE(s3ntinel @ Mar 9 2005, 12:41 PM) QUOTE(beardednose @ Mar 8 2005, 02:11 PM) For me, I look for a degree when I hire because it tells me that a person can stick with something longterm. Hmm, I take the point you're making but this only gives an impression from a snapshot in time. A lot can happen over a 5-10 year period, people can become more apathetic or conversely more diligent in their application to work. I agree that understanding the need to research that an academic course gives is of great use, but I feel that the overall benefit of a degree is often time-sensitive. Vendor certs are too specialised and pretend to be something they're not (The CCSE harping on about how CCSE's should be able to conduct Pent/Vulnerability tests for example). Security within academia in the UK appears to still be haphazard, with MSc's not fully giving valid direction about the application of security within the enterprise and standardisation is required across the industry to this regard. Well it is official I have my CISSP.
beardednose
May 9 2005, 01:17 PM
Let me be the first to say: congrats!
I know it wasn't easy.
Now that I got my yearly increase, I can say getting my CISSP in the last year didn't raise my salary one bit. I was already well-paid...I did get a nice bump recently for leading our successful SOX compliance--which proves my assertion that results matter more than certs.
As I look for my next job, I expect the cert to help a lot and give me a NICE bump in salary. I'm trying to move with the org, but it that doesn't work, I'm moving on....
Ph03n1xPr0j3c7
May 9 2005, 01:35 PM
QUOTE Well it is official I have my CISSP. Congrats! I just got mine as well. I should hopefully see a decent pay increace soon. I'm the only one on my team that has a CISSP.
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